The perception of shipping

[majorshipper]

*For the purpose of this discussion, someone who enjoys any kind of relationship, het, slash, OT3, OT4, whatever, is a shipper, since shipping comes from (relation)shipping, a non-gender-defined term
Also, for this discussion, we'll ignore my reasons/motivation for slashing vs het shipping

So, I was thinking earlier about how people define shipping or pairings you ship. Namely, how do you define what you ship? The context I started considering it was when I was considering Sam/Dean and Dean/Cas. I was reading Sam/Dean fic, which isn't OOC for me at all. I read S/D slash, I'll notice/comment on particularly slashy scenes in episodes, I'd probably make S/D graphics if I was so inspired. And yet, I don't consider myself a Sam/Dean shipper. I don't talk about it to the degree I talk about D/C(as I'm sure my flist has noticed). On the opposite side of the coin, I'll read Dean/Cas, I'll comment on Dean/Cas scenes, I'll do Dean/Cas graphics. I consider myself a Dean/Cas shipper. Ditto with Sam/Cas. I do the same actions for all three pairings, and yet I don't actively consider myself a Sam/Dean shipper. Is that because I don't hang out with other S/D shippers? Is it because of the stereotypes and stigma attached with shipping S/D that I don't want to fit into? Is it because I've never(so far) felt the urge to make S/D graphics? Of course, there are other minor (slash and het) pairings that I'll read the fics for and comment on scenes in SPN, yet some I do say I ship (Dean/Lisa, Cas/Meg, Michael/Lucifer), and others I don't (Sam/Gabriel most notably).

I considered that it's just because I like Dean/Cas more than Sam/Dean, which, yeah, okay, fits, but on a scale, I ship Sam/Cas less than Sam/Dean, so if it's for that reason, why do I consider myself a Sam/Cas shipper? Is it just because Sassy is so cracky, where S/D is comparatively serious?

I've had similar issues with het shipping, though I haven't really thought about it since then. In Stargate, I enjoyed reading Daniel/Janet fics and Daniel/Janet scenes, and yet I've never really considered myself a Daniel/Janet shipper. In Doctor Who, I'll read and maybe even one day write Amy/Rory fic and I enjoy their scenes a lot, and yet I don't classify myself as a proper Amy/Rory shipper.

I don't know why that happens. I don't think it's shame, because I've never been afraid to cop to shipping unpopular/controversial pairings(hello, SGA!), and in SPN, there really isn't any shame to be found anywhere. In fact, I'm known for shipping any two things that breathe (and even things that don't *coughDean/Impalacough*), which also takes out the possibility that I only ship "canony" things. I can't tell if it's a combination of intensity of emotions + ~special circumstances, or what. Maybe I'm just confusing. XD

SO. The point of all that was to maybe try and make some sense of it. But I'm curious about you guys. Are there pairings you ship but don't actually consider yourself as a shipper? Or am I all alone out here?

ETA: Just to make a point(not sure what point it is, though), I find myself currently reading a fic that has past tumbleweed!Sam/agave plant!Jo resulting in mpreg, and to top it off, it's NOT crack. wat.

Comments

[pat_san]

Mmmh, I don't know, but I consider a shipper someone who "enjoys any kind of relationship" between two (or more) character, but always with a twist of romance. In Supernatural I'm not at all a shipper, since I like, say, Sam/Dean but I don't see anything remotely romantic in it, let alone sexual. In Dark Angel on the other hand, I am a die hard Max/Alec shipper since to me their relationship is so potentially romantic/sexual. Insted I'm not a Logan/Max shipper even though they're the canon couple.

I believe the personal liking and the precence of romance in our view are always the fact that make you a shipper or not.
Does it make sense to you?

[ohmiya-sg.livejournal.com]

Dean/Impala is canon, hdu.



Have you seen those Dean/human!Impala gifs with Ian Somerhalder as the Impala? sdkjhgsdkghsg As much as I like female!Impala, I must admit I drooled over that. 8D

[lunasky3.livejournal.com]

Omgomgomg linklinklink pleaz

[ohmiya-sg.livejournal.com]

;D

[lunasky3.livejournal.com]

Eeeeeee calling himself Baby gives me feels.... o.O

[ohmiya-sg.livejournal.com]

...Writing feels?

[majorshipper]

LMAO I'll agree to that.

And yes, I have. They are awesome.

[ohmiya-sg.livejournal.com]

The way they like to dress him in black on TVD just makes it perfect. 8D

[majorshipper]

Yup. TBH Ian is just a little too...idk, pretty boy, I guess, for me to like without character stuff or backstory, but I can totally see him as Baby. It works pretty effortlessly, imho.
Still, if show ever gave us a human!Impala, it's sure to be a woman, no matter how we feel.

[ohmiya-sg.livejournal.com]

Ian's a douche (IMO), so I only like him as characters; even then, Damon is getting annoying and stale. His attitude works for Baby. But yeah, totally would be a woman, which I am perfectly fine with. 8D

[lunasky3.livejournal.com]

Huh. I never really thought of it this way. I call myself a multishipper because I basically read everything, but when it comes down to more obscure pairings, I wouldn't say that I actively ship them? I feel that it has more to do with "couple status" than "nom hot sex" because everyone falls into the last XD

I was actually trying to figure it my definition of an OTP, because as much as I hardcore ship Dean/Cas, Sam and Dean are canon SOULMATES. Does that top an epic romance? Can I call Sam/Dean, in whatever form, a comin OTP because they will be together forever, and Dean/Cas is just a personal one? Idk.

[majorshipper]

True. I classify myself as a multishipper above everything else. I'll read anything, pretty much. I can see anything. I just don't know why I'm that way in SPN, because 99% of the time, regardless of pairing, I don't read for teh pr0nz. And, SPN is the only fandom I slash in.

Exactly! I was thinking of maybe how "canon" I see a pairing being how I ship them, and yet, I consider Sam/Dean and Dean/Cas on similar footing when it comes to canon(i.e. neither is ever going to be out-and-out canon, and yet Sam and Dean ARE soulmates, and Dean and Cas DO have a profound bond and buckets of subtext).
See! Now I've confused everyone else too. Score?

[lunasky3.livejournal.com]

Goddamn meta. *shakes fist and goes back to the pr0nz*. Life is so much simpler without thinking :D. Though it is fun. Just not this late at night... XD

[majorshipper]

LOL. But...meta! I love meta! Meta and me are OTP!!1!!!eleventy1! Seriously, though I totally get you. I've broken my brain over meta before.
It seems like I only produce anything of any quality late at night when I literally cannot think *facepalm*

[lunasky3.livejournal.com]

Lol, I was debating- respond to this post, or go to sleep?

Guess which won? XD

[pickedoffthird.livejournal.com]

I honestly don't think there is any one answer to this question, though it's an interesting one. Like you might like Sam/Dean fic for the writing or something, but you just don't feel that attachment to the pairing that you do to Dean/Castiel or Sam/Castiel. And why you (not just you personally) get attached to certain pairings but not others... I think it's all about the feels, man. I think sometimes people get so het up about defending their pairings that they don't realize that we're human and we're gonna feel different things and that's okay.

I'm pretty fic-monogamous in SPN, too (lol?), maybe because I got into it soooo late and there's so much D/C to read that I haven't felt the need to seek out pairings I really don't ship. But with baseball fandom, I'll kinda read every fic there is, even about players I really don't like. Maybe because it's so small (and there's one really good author whose favorite players and kinks are... let's just say not mine, but I've read all her stuff anyway and I really appreciated it).

[majorshipper]

True. I know I'm not as attached to Sam/Dean as I am Dean/Cas...and yet I have so many feels re: Sam/Dean and why/when I can see it being legitimately possible and how I feel about it being related to how possible I see it being (i.e. my love for Sam/Dean does equal or exceed my love for Dean/Cas depending on the circumstances of the Sam/Dean).

See, for SPN, I will read almost anything that comes across my browser. Seriously. I read 85-90% of the non-RPF fics that are linked every day in the spnnewsletter. I've read more fic in this fandom than any other, ever. I've read shitty stuff for my favorite pairings and masterpieces for things I'd never considered before. I'm not sure how much that effects why I ship who/what I do and to what degree.

[pickedoffthird.livejournal.com]

Exactly! I don't think you can watch SPN without getting bro feels in SOME way.

Ooh thanks for the heads-up on spnnewsletter. I never know where to start looking, so it's been kinda hard to find places for general fic (and I don't mean necessarily gen!fic by that). There is just SO MUCH of EVERYTHING though, haha.

[majorshipper]

spnnewsletter is a great place to get started, to branch out and see new things. I got into reading it when I picked up reccing for crack_impala (another great place to get recs from!), and I've read so much since then. Also, rec_hymenated is fantastic for D/C.

[ohmiya-sg.livejournal.com]

I ship everything, provided certain characters aren't involved. Lucifer's the only bad guy I'll ship with anyone, and it's usually in a lulzy, sassy way, tbh. Anyone in the generation before Sam and Dean are out, too. No Gabriel, as much as I love Richard. For RPF, there's not a lot out there that isn't J2, and I live for other permutations of J2M. I ship everyone/everyone in a friendly way because I just love this cast.♥

I actually haven't been reading much fic at all lately. :O I might have overdone it... :x

[majorshipper]

See, I'd expect to have that problem because of ~morals or lack of interest, but I literally ship anything. I love me some Sam/Lucifer or Dean/Lucifer, of the fucked-up variety or not. I ship a little Mary/John, though that maybe stems from me enjoying Amy and Matt together more than anything else (and all three of those? I consider myself a shipper of). I don't have strong feelings for any pairing involving Gabriel, except Team Free Love, because I fucking love OT3s and OT4s in this show.
I didn't mention RPF, because tbh, I don't ship any to a great degree. I'll read any J2 or permutations of J2M. I love everyone with everyone because they make it so easy and happy. So, yeah. Agreed there.

Well...I'm behind. I have a bunch of stuff to read when my schedule clears up lol over summer.

[morganlucas41.livejournal.com]

I just saw your other post, so you might not get this comment for a while, but I really love talking about ships so I couldn't resist :)

This is a REALLY interesting question, and one I often think about. Why do I ship what I ship? Honestly, I have no idea. I do know that I tend more towards canon pairings or those with heavy subtext.

In SPN, I'm in almost the same boat as you. Dean/Cas is my main ship, but I really don't have a problem with Sam/Dean, either. But like you, I wouldn't say that I ship Sam/Dean. For me, if I ship something, that primarily means I read a lot of fic...occasionally I make vids, and even more rarely I write fic, but yeah. Oh, and meta, I do that all over the place. So I definitely read way more Dean/Cas fic than I do Sam/Dean. When I first started reading SPN fic it was about 50/50, but that balance has definitely shifted. I'm not entirely sure what it is. I do tend to sort of be an OTP shipper, though when there's multiple strong canonical relationships (not necessarily romantic) for the same people, I do multi-ship. I dunno. It's hard to explain, lol.

So it's not necessarily that I don't think you can ship both Dean/Cas and Dean/Sam...it's just that I ship Dean/Cas more. And find myself caring less and less about Sam/Dean romantically, though I suppose I'm as invested as ever in their platonic relationship (but as a general rule, I hardly ever read gen).

In my other fandoms, I range from shipping the show's main canon couple as my OTP, to shipping more obscure, but usually still canonical, pairings. When I do slash, like I said before, it's usually based on a lot of subtext. My bottom line when it comes to shipping, though, is characterization. I need to be sold on why these characters, as they exist in canon, would be together. Now, occasionally I'll read rare pairs and think huh, never thought of that. But I'm rarely ever invested enough in them to ship them.

Yeah, I wasn't kidding about having a lot of thoughts about this...lol!

[majorshipper]

And it's so much more complicated than "I like them, and I don't like them". It's not just why do you ship, it's why do you ship to this degree, and at what point do you define yourself as someone who ships? It really gets interesting when I look at SPN, which has fundamentally altered how/who/why/what I ship like nothing before or after it.

I do know that I tend more towards canon pairings or those with heavy subtext
This is traditionally me. I've always gone for the canon pairings, regardless of fandom. And yet, SPN. I still ship anything with canon-ish-ness, but I ship ALL THE THINGS, too.

I think, too, for me, at least, what I've seen, Dean/Cas is/has slowly taken over fandom. If you look at the newsletter(numbers of fanworks), if you look at the big bang statistics, D/C is growing, while S/D barely holds or looses ground. That may be effecting why/how we ship and how we define it. Personally, I hate seeing any one pairing dominate a fandom the way it's always been in my past fandoms, but that's just a part of shipping, I guess.

And find myself caring less and less about Sam/Dean romantically, though I suppose I'm as invested as ever in their platonic relationship (but as a general rule, I hardly ever read gen)
See, I feel like I'm going in opposite direction, with both D/C and S/D. I've always preferred platonic to romantic, especially in SPN, but platonic shipping simply doesn't exist in this fandom(that I've seen). So it's either all-out, or gen. And I'm certainly not heading towards gen(nothing against it, but I've never read gen in any fandom I've been in, except Stargate).

In my other fandoms, I range from shipping the show's main canon couple as my OTP, to shipping more obscure, but usually still canonical, pairings. When I do slash, like I said before, it's usually based on a lot of subtext. My bottom line when it comes to shipping, though, is characterization. I need to be sold on why these characters, as they exist in canon, would be together. Now, occasionally I'll read rare pairs and think huh, never thought of that. But I'm rarely ever invested enough in them to ship them.
Exactly. I'll ship for shipping's sake...sometimes. And sometimes, that little bit of two-episode subtext will become a good friendship with romantic potential, even if fandom sticks primarily with the anti-canon pairings(yes, I'm looking at you, Sanctuary).
But mostly, as in, 90% of the time, I will ship whomever I want, so long as I feel like they have the characterization and chemistry that makes it work. I will not ship a main canon couple if they don't work for me. Vice versus. As for slash, I'm the same way. I don't naturally see slashy potential. I just can't look at two guys and instantly think "well, yeah, duh, they're getting it on". They have to mesh, they have to work, and, tbh, fandom has to give me some good stuff to run with, before I start to see it. Even then, I usually prefer platonic > romantic slash, but, that literally does not exist, not when fandom(all fandoms, practically) are obsessed with slash.
Butttttt...that borders all into my rants on how fandom has an unhealthy obsession with sexuality, male sexuality, male deviance, gender reversal, sexual extremism, etc. And that's something for a whole nother day and discussion.

ANYWAYS. Yes. So many thoughts. I was clearing out my inbox today and I had to come reply. :)

[morganlucas41.livejournal.com]

Dean/Cas taking over fandom - I've noticed that, too. I feel like it's partly because D/C is new and shiny, and it seems like it would be hard to sustain a ship (S/D) over 7 seasons...without it waning some.

"Platonic shipping" - that's so interesting. I've never seen that term before but it really fits Sam and Dean's relationship, doesn't it? Loving the brotherly relationship between them but not needing it to be slashy. But...well, I guess I don't quite see the distinction between that and just gen fic. I don't hate gen or anything, but I generally need a pairing in order to be really interested in a fic. Like, 9 times out of 10 I'll click on a fic that's labeled with a pairing, and not a gen one. But this idea of "platonic shipping" is interesting to me.

Personally I'm not picky between slash, het, or femslash...like I said, it's all about the characters. But I will admit I'm mostly interested in ships being in my fic. If I want to say/read gen things, there's meta. Not that there's not interesting things to say in non-romantic relationships...but for example, as much as I adore Sam and Dean's platonic dynamic, I'm just not as compelled to read fic about it. I think their relationship is the kind that could have sex/romance added to it, or not, because it's already so strong on its own. But I just don't really feel all that compelled to read about it.

Late or not, I'm glad you replied! I totally understand :) I love discussing this stuff!

[majorshipper]

I guess so. Still, I'm not entirely comfortable with it, and it does make me sad. I always get that way with any kind of possibly controlling element.

I find myself platonically shipping a lot these days; enjoying the relationship, but not the explicitness or the romantic designs. It might have to do with the background I have in fangirling ensemble shows, but the gen I'm used to is defined by being an ensemble endeavor, where it tries to tell a story with equal character dev or contributions. I don't mind that kind of story: I enjoy it, on occasion. But I watch shows for characters and their interactions, not fancy plots. I don't read much gen in SPN, but what I have seen often tries to focus just on the plot, which is of no interest to me, or is pre-series, another thing I'm primarily uninterested in. There isn't too much that focuses JUST on the relationships between characters without getting romantic. The kind of gen that does, like the awesome shangrilada's fic, is what I tend to classify as platonic shipping. It's supporting, exploring, advancing that relationship, without involving romance or sex. I also love things that explore the many shades of love, including the platonic ones.

I'll read anything, if I can see it. I actually prefer femslash to slash, but, lol, that's enough hard to find even in fandoms with female leads. For me, the jump comes down to being able to visualize these two characters in a relationship. Het, slash, femslash, whatever. Most of the time, that's easy for me to do, especially with het. But you're also right about Sam and Dean. Of course, I feel that way about Dean/Cas, too. Sometimes I wonder if the reason I don't read as much S/D is because I know the authors in D/C fandom, I know which ones are good, and I know which are bad, plus, there's a larger day-to-day volume of D/C, whereas a lot of current S/D writers are...um...not good? and there's less of it coming out on a day-to-day basis so my picky brain doesn't see many options.

ETA: More on platonic shipping! I see J2 or J2M or variations thereof as platonic shipping. I think, J2 at the very least, they love each other. But, as fandom puts it, heterosexual life partners. Like family. Like...platonic. I can't see them as anything else. Which is why I only ever read the very rare RPF fic(I have no qualms about RPF itself, so that doesn't present any issue to me).