majorshipper | Morgana & Igraine, Season Three

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Morgana & Igraine, Season Three

*SEASON 3 SPOILERS FOR MERLIN*
I SAY AGAIN! DO NOT READ IF YOU DON'T WANT TO SEE SPOILER-ISH PIC AND SPECULATION! (With full S2 spoilers as well)
Okay now that that's outta the way, and you assumedly clicked on the cut, let's begin. This was kinda discussed on

camelot_love when the on-location pictures were first released, but never to any kind of detail (at least not while I was there). But this fascinates me to no end. Really. Check out the pictures. The first one is from season two (credit for picture goes to Merlin Wiki), the woman being Igraine, Arthur's deceased mother, who was 'conjured' by Morgause. It's unknown if she's actually his mother or not, but judging by what she said, it is possible. The second picture (credit for posting goes to

yavannauk), is of Katie McGrath from on-location in Pierrefonds, France. Notice anything similar? They're obviously wearing the SAME dress! If you recall, last season (S2), Morgana disappeared with Morgause after being poisoned by Merlin. Obviously she survived, and has returned to Camelot. Now, the biggest question is...why is she wearing Ygraine's dress? Is it a huge plot point or just a lack of costumes? Has Morgause sent her back in Ygraine's dress for a reason? How long will it take Merlin and Arthur to notice? (Surely they're not that stupid to not notice, right?) Anyway. Anyone want to start speculating on the matter?

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Ha, that's interesting. Pretty much the same theory I've been crafting for my fic about them.

Thanks. I'm new around here (as in I've been hanging around for ages but I've been dying to theorize about this with someone besides ME), so I joined up.

I've been posting some of my old blog entries from the last 6 months up here under my account in my journal thing. Here. http://koshakrl.livejournal.com/640.html

Use whatever you want-I've been dying to share these thoughts with somebody.

Nice! I haven't gone very in-depth with it all, or researched anything, just mostly thought up on my own. Though I bet if I actually looked I'd find even more ideas and speculation to add to the stack. Also, if you're interested in talking with others about pre-series stuff, check out

beforethelegend.

Wouldn't it make more sense if Arthur and Morgause had the same mother (Igraine) based on all the look-alike references? That'd be (chronologically):

Igraine + Gorlois = Morgause
unknown + Gorlois = Morgana
Igraine + Uther = Arthur

To be perfectly honest, the half-sister connection between Morgana & Morgause bothers me a bit because it messed up my original theory about Morgana's parents, but oh well. THANK YOU, WRITERS! :p

As I haven't given this possibility much thought yet, feel free to point out to me whatever I may have overlooked of course. :)

No, because Igraine was supposed to be barren. I think she's either an aunt to Morgause and Morgana or she's a cousin.

I know that Igraine's supposed to be barren, but isn't there the possibility that she wasn't when she was younger (= when she gave birth to Morgause)?

English isn't my native language, therefore I can't say whether the word "barren" implies that a person is generally unable to conceive or whether it could as well be due to an accident or menopause.

Edited 2010-05-27 14:16 (UTC)

I have to admit that would have made a lot of sense to me in terms of the legends and so on. It also would have been a lot cleaner to figure out because then you just have one person to invent - Morgana's mother. Despite being told Igraine was barren I admittedly haven't ruled that idea out, mainly because I'm a legend boffin and I like to keep on top of things. lol! There is more to the story than meets the eye and I'm not ruling out any possibility until the truth has been revealed on screen.

To be honest I think the cousin idea is a bit... meh. But that's just me. If Morgana and Morgause were FULL sisters I might be more willing to go with it but because they're only half it seems a bit too confusing. I mean that does seem to be the case but for it to be revealed that they're all cousins? Meh. I'm also a little concerned because you have to invent so many parents for everyone. You have to invent a mother and/or father for Morgause and a mother for Morgana. Also, which parent do they share? I used to think that maybe they shared a mother because of the bracelet, but then when I rewatched the episode I realised that Gaius seemed to make out that Morgause had a right to wear that bracelet. ("There is only one person other than Morgana who would have cause to wear such a bracelet") which strongly suggests that Gorlois might have fathered Morgause.

Either none of this goes anywhere to explain why Uther seemed so freaked out that Morgause survived. It couldn't have had anything to do with magic because she was born long before Uther turned against magic. It MUST have meant something whether Morgause lived or died, which suggests that Uther (and maybe Igraine) might be tied into Morgause's birth.

That said I think a family link between Arthur and Morgause MUST exist whether they are cousins, siblings, or some other blood relation... the fact they wanted Morgause to have that hair colour rather than the same as Morgana suggests they are doing something with the family tree,

It does seem like it would have been a lot easier to just make Morgana + Morgause full sisters, eh? But I suppose half-sisters are more dramatic in the sense of storytelling.

I had a theory that Igraine and Morgause were half sisters also; sharing the same mum, while Morgana and Morgause shared the same father. But, as you said, it does leave a lot of characters to create. Still, that's more or less the basic idea I had for my canon (or what I plan on writing for my fic).

To be honest I really wish the writers had made Morgana/Morgause full sisters because then I think a cousin connection to Arthur would have been more... satisfying. Plus, again, it's cleaner because then you'd only have to create one mpre parent. But they are half siblings and, granted, that makes the storytelling more dramatic but the first question that comes to everyone's head is "which parents DO THEY NOT share?" as well as the question "which parent DO THEY share?"

Like I said I have three theories about the truth about Morgause; one based on Gorlois being the parent she shares with Morgana, one based on the mother being shared, and one that doesn't really matter either way.

Plus it would have been more dramatic to keep us wondering who Morgause was to Morgana in 2x08 and maybe reveal finally in 2x12, but they didn't - they revealed it more or less straight away and launched the storyline with Uther being involved (or rather kept out of) Morgause's birth. I want to know why people told him the child had died.

I have to say I like your Morgause-Igraine theory at lot more than the cousin theory. I just think that the writers should do something good with the 'half' side of things but do it without creating too many characters or focusing too much on the parents of the parents. I mean I think I could totally see, say, Morgana's mother being Igraine's sister or something but it doesn't really explain why that fact would be kept from Arthur or Morgana... surely Gorlois would have made it known, magic or not.

Edited 2010-05-27 15:33 (UTC)

It's like a

fun

little guessing game! Who's parent is also someone else's parent! Egh.

I really do wish they'd have left some mystery around Morgause; a girl really should have her secrets. It did open the whole hide-it-from-Uther storyline, but it felt too rushed for me. I'd have been happy to not even have it revealed until 2x12 or even in S3 sometime. Anywho. lol, can't change the past I suppose.

Yeah...if only they could work the existing characters into the plot instead of yanking names and characters out of their hats to fill the half-sibling connections.

I wish they'd kept it a mystery too. It was strange that they chose to reveal it in the same episode that Arthur was trying to find out more about his mother. I didn't feel it was rushed as much as I thought it was thrown in with little care. It was like the Morgana/Morgause connection wasn't as important as what it would lead to or something...

Pity, but as you rightly say they can't change history now.

I agree it would be much better if they worked existing characters into the plots rather than inventing them and pulling names out of hats. They have to bear in mind that not everyone at home is in the fandom - ordinary people have to remember these names!

I think they underestimated how important they were going to make the Morgana/Morgause connection and how well it'd be taken.

True. That said they clearly had something planned with the whole "Arthur-Uther-Igraine-Morgana-Morgause" arch that was going to come into play in S3. I can understand why they would want the Morga.2 reveal to come in S2, I just wonder why they dished it out so quickly.

Slightly OT but another thing I want to find out more about is that bracelet. On the one hand it seems to be significant to Morgause (As having been her mother's) suggesting that Morgana might have the same mother. Yet on the other hand the bracelet was for the women of Gorlois family. Granted Gorlois could have given the bracelet to his wife, and she gave it to Morgause, but Gaius said that "There is only one person, other than Morgana, who would have cause to wear such a bracelet" suggesting strongly that Morgause has an ACTUAL right to wear a bracelet of Gorlois family, thus him being her father. Gorlois could still have given the bracelet of his family to Morgause's mother, but that mother wouldn't be the same person as Morgana's mother.

Hmmm! I've never really pondered the bracelet before...but you do raise some interesting questions if you add that connection to it.

Re: I have a theory or two or three...

sophielou21.livejournal.com - 2010-05-27 17:53 (UTC) - Expand

Well, I think that theory has a few issues; A: Igraine wasn't supposed to be able to have kids, and B: Morgause is pretty old compared to Arthur and Morgana. It doesn't really make a ton of sense in those regards, but otherwise it's actually interesting.

That's why I said Igraine wasn't probably mother to Morgana or Morgause. She was awfully young when she had Arthur, so it'd be a bit of a stretch to assume she had another child either right close to Arthur's age (Morgana) or one that was considerably older than Arthur (Morgause.)

I don't think it was unusual back then to get married and have children at a young age, e. g. 12 or 14 (when you can in fact give birth).

Might Uther eventually get suspicious if Igraine had a child and then could have no more?
Also, would Goloris have trusted Morgana with Uther if he'd known that there was the slightest chance Uther would find out that he had had a child with Igraine? We all know Uther loved Igraine, and because of that love he did some pretty drastic stuff; so it wouldn't be that hard to imagine what he'd do if he found out that his wife had had another child by another man. He would have been less likely to eliminate magic users (feeling betrayed by his wife would have made him probably bitter towards her?).
I dunno, just thinking, but both Igraine and Uther seemed to have had eyes pretty much for only each other, considering their strength of character

True, I've never taken that into consideration. I'm probably trying to stick to the original legend as much as possible and denying that it's not going anywhere!

I suppose I feel free-er to think outside the box, since I haven't read much of the legends surrounding it. I know the basics but I feel free to make my own legend in most regards. But your idea does have merit...it's not totally insane, and it just might work if you can fit the timeline around it.

Unless Uther was the reason why they couldn't have children. I still think at this point we should take Igraine being barren at face value but if there does turn out to be a twist and she did have a child before, it still could be down to him.

I agree that Uther might have felt some resentment if Igraine had a child with someone else, but his love for her is so strong that I imagine he'd feel more resentment towards the child than Igraine. Besides whose to say that she was even with Uther at the time? Like I said 'Igraine-barren-face-value' but I'm just saying anything is possible.

The bottom line for me is wanting to know why Morgause's birth was so significant and why everyone wanted Uther to believe that she had died at birth?

I admit, I'd never really considered the fact that Uther might have been the one who couldn't have children...but it would explain a great many things.

That is the big question right now, though? And the Uther being the issue idea would explain some of those questions.

Edited 2010-05-27 15:33 (UTC)

I started to think about Uther being the issue after I started to wonder whether Gorlois might be the parent that Morga.2 shared. A friend and I had a long debate about it! lol! ;)

It would explain a few things. Hypothetically if Uther was the reason they couldn't have children rather than Igraine then it might explain better the mentality of going to Nimueh without telling Igraine her. He might have thought he could get away with it.

Re: I have a theory or two or three...

majorshipper - 2010-05-27 16:06 (UTC) - Expand

Re: I have a theory or two or three...

sophielou21.livejournal.com - 2010-05-27 16:27 (UTC) - Expand

Re: I have a theory or two or three...

majorshipper - 2010-05-27 17:01 (UTC) - Expand

Re: I have a theory or two or three...

koshakrl.livejournal.com - 2010-05-27 17:43 (UTC) - Expand

Re: I have a theory or two or three...

sophielou21.livejournal.com - 2010-05-27 17:50 (UTC) - Expand

Re: I have a theory or two or three...

sophielou21.livejournal.com - 2010-05-27 17:47 (UTC) - Expand

I don't think Igraine was that young when she had Arthur. In her twenties, yes, but that wasn't young to be having a child back in those days. I also don't think that Morgause is 'considerably' older than Arthur. I'd say maybe six or eight years older, but not too old. I don't think Emilia Fox is playing her age in any case.

Besides whether Igraine was barren or Uther was shooting blanks I think you have to give them a few years of trying to realise that the longed-for-child wasn't happening for them, enough for Uther to be so desperate he'd go to Nimueh for help.

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