majorshipper | Morgana & Igraine, Season Three

Current Mood: thoughtful

Entry tags:

Morgana & Igraine, Season Three

*SEASON 3 SPOILERS FOR MERLIN*
I SAY AGAIN! DO NOT READ IF YOU DON'T WANT TO SEE SPOILER-ISH PIC AND SPECULATION! (With full S2 spoilers as well)
Okay now that that's outta the way, and you assumedly clicked on the cut, let's begin. This was kinda discussed on

camelot_love when the on-location pictures were first released, but never to any kind of detail (at least not while I was there). But this fascinates me to no end. Really. Check out the pictures. The first one is from season two (credit for picture goes to Merlin Wiki), the woman being Igraine, Arthur's deceased mother, who was 'conjured' by Morgause. It's unknown if she's actually his mother or not, but judging by what she said, it is possible. The second picture (credit for posting goes to

yavannauk), is of Katie McGrath from on-location in Pierrefonds, France. Notice anything similar? They're obviously wearing the SAME dress! If you recall, last season (S2), Morgana disappeared with Morgause after being poisoned by Merlin. Obviously she survived, and has returned to Camelot. Now, the biggest question is...why is she wearing Ygraine's dress? Is it a huge plot point or just a lack of costumes? Has Morgause sent her back in Ygraine's dress for a reason? How long will it take Merlin and Arthur to notice? (Surely they're not that stupid to not notice, right?) Anyway. Anyone want to start speculating on the matter?

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Is it a huge plot point or just a lack of costumes? I REALLY hope that it is a plot point and not a lack of costumes. It would be really crappy if they were reusing costumes. Esp the ONE that belonged to Arthurs mother.

Has Morgause sent her back in Ygraine's dress for a reason? I am hoping that this happens. Morgause seems to be the type of person that has well thoughout plans. This must be apart of a greater plot imo.

How long will it take Merlin and Arthur to notice? (Surely they're not that stupid to not notice, right?) I think that Arthur will notice right away. I am sure he has that vision of his mother sketched in his dream. She is the only other woman he dreams about other than our Gwen. :) He better notice right away, if the producers pull that crap I will scream at the tv. I am interested in Merlins reaction. It will also be interesting to see how long they play on Morgana and Morgause not knowing that he is magic. I am sure if they have them hook up with the Druids than they will put it all together pretty quickly. This is all so interesting and exciting!!

Is it a huge plot point or just a lack of costumes? I REALLY hope that it is a plot point and not a lack of costumes. It would be really crappy if they were reusing costumes. Esp the ONE that belonged to Arthurs mother.
If they're just re-using costumes I will have lost SO much faith in the costume department, really.

I am hoping that this happens. Morgause seems to be the type of person that has well thoughout plans. This must be apart of a greater plot imo.
Exactly! I happen to think Morgause is way to smart to not plot things out, and this is one of those cases where I'm almost 100% sure that it's a well thought out S3 arc. *crosses fingers and toes*

I think that Arthur will notice right away. I am sure he has that vision of his mother sketched in his dream. She is the only other woman he dreams about other than our Gwen. :)
See, that's what I was thinking, but if Morgana arrives at a time of peril or some such, his mind might be elsewhere, and he'll know it's familiar, but won't recognize it for a bit.

I am interested in Merlins reaction.
I get the feeling the instant Merlin sees it he will know what it is. I mean, he already knew the evil in Morgana's heart, and that Morgause was tied into it.

It will also be interesting to see how long they play on Morgana and Morgause not knowing that he is magic.
I get the feeling that many epic things will happen in S3, such as several people finding out about Merlin's magic. I hope some of those will be Morgana and Morgause, as it would give them leverage over him, something to hang over his head.

It will also be interesting to see how long they play on Morgana and Morgause not knowing that he is magic.

I'm sure Merlin will expose himself to them sooner or later for no other reason than he exposes a plan of theirs and has to stop them like any other baddie. However since it's Morgana and he's probably still smarting over what he had to do to her last time, he'll just defeat her and let her go... against her better judgement. Or something like that.

I'd like to see more scenes between Merlin and Morgause. She knows about Arthur's great destiny, so she must know about "Emrys"/Merlin's role in events.

I really, REALLY, want to see more Merlin/Morgause interaction. She knows far more than she lets on, and while she's not the great dragon, she does know enough to know Arthur's destiny...and therefore Merlin's. I'd love to see her offering Merlin some answers, for a price (that he'll refuse, he's been down that road), but will always wonder about.

I might be jumping the gun here but I wonder sometimes if maybe, if she lasts a bit longer, Morgause might turn out to be "the good sister" while Morgana will gradually get darker and darker. Morgause seems to have an understanding of destiny and, so far, she had never actually been proven to lie about anything she has said or done. I know she could be lying at several points but I think at times she seemed to kind and genuine, particularly towards Arthur or Morgana, to just be in it for herself.

The point is that I think Morgause in the long-run might be a morally-grey heroine rather than a villain. Therefore I would like to see her come eye to eye with Merlin and maybe offer him some help.

I just thought: if Morgause knows about Arthur (and possibly she'll know about Merlin too), will she know about Morgana and Mordred. Maybe like Merlin has in the past she might be trying to prevent it from happening, but might accidently help things along. I'm assuming at this point Morgause will teach Morgana magic, since it's very unlikely it will be Merlin now (as it is traditionally him in the legends). Maybe that's what she'd try and give advice to Merlin about --- ? I don't know.

See, ever since she first appeared, I kinda had that feeling about her, that she might be a good person who does what she must. She's very level-headed and honestly, the only 'wrong' I saw her doing, was trying to get rid of Uther so as to usher in Arthur as king. She knows that she's seen as the bad guy, and she has to do what she see's needing done, and if others see her a certain way, then that's the way it must be. I would love to see, sometime in the future a good Morgause-helps-Merlin storyline though, even if it's not sinister in nature ;)

Merlin and Morgause do seem to have one common goal, which is to see Arthur become king. Ther difference is that Morgause isn't against bumping off Uther to make it happen a bit faster. I do think that Morgause does have her own issues with Uther beside hating his stance against magic. It does seem all tied up in Arthur somehow. Either way never at any point has Morgause wished any harm on Arthur (As Gaius rightly said "Had she chosen to she already could have killed him") and it is on that point alone I could see her trying to come to an "agreement" with Merlin at the least.

I'd love a Morgause-helps-Merlin or possibly a Merlin-helps-Morgause storyline. I just want to see them together again; those five minutes in 2x12 were just pure magic.

Merlin and Morgause do seem to have one common goal, which is to see Arthur become king. Ther difference is that Morgause isn't against bumping off Uther to make it happen a bit faster. I do think that Morgause does have her own issues with Uther beside hating his stance against magic. It does seem all tied up in Arthur somehow.
EXACTLY! Merlin and Morgause are very, very similar. Biggest difference being that Morgause will do whatever it takes to get where she feels things should be, while as you said below, Merlin will only do 'bad' things when he has no other choice. And Uther. With her having known Igraine, I think she wants him gone for personal reasons, not just to usher in Arthur. I mean, Uther is responsible for Igraine's death, and it's understandable that Morgause would harbor hatred for him because of that.

I just want to see them together again; those five minutes in 2x12 were just pure magic.
Exactly. Honestly, I don't really care what the story is. THEY NEED SCREEN TIME!

Biggest difference being that Morgause will do whatever it takes to get where she feels things should be, while as you said below, Merlin will only do 'bad' things when he has no other choice.

I'd like to see more of Merlin make his own choices like he did when he let the dragon go free. You know, choices that he makes without having the dragon's voice howling at the back of his head. Like you said it might make him weary of Morgause giving him advice... but I'd like it to be honest advice.

With her having known Igraine, I think she wants him gone for personal reasons, not just to usher in Arthur. I mean, Uther is responsible for Igraine's death, and it's understandable that Morgause would harbor hatred for him because of that.

I certainly think it is these personal reasons that drive Morgause. I think it's one of the reasons she was so annoyed when having revealed the truth to Arthur it didn't end with Uther getting what he deserves. I can't help but notice that in trying to get both Arthur and Morgana's trust, she did so in trying to turn them/fan their distrust of Uther. Morgause's own hatred of Uther I think is perfectly understandable and I'd like to see it explored further. She has so many reasons why she would want him dead.

I'd like to see more of Merlin make his own choices like he did when he let the dragon go free. You know, choices that he makes without having the dragon's voice howling at the back of his head. Like you said it might make him weary of Morgause giving him advice... but I'd like it to be honest advice.
With the Dragon gone, I'm hoping Merlin makes more independent choices, choices that benefit him, choices that he has to learn from himself. But I would like someone there to give advice, and Morgause is the PERFECT person for that.

I certainly think it is these personal reasons that drive Morgause...
Exactly! Her largest leverage that she's revealed/used so far has been Uther!hate, and that works well because her character runs off calculated emotions. *bounces* I WANT MORGAUSE CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT!

With the Dragon gone, I'm hoping Merlin makes more independent choices, choices that benefit him, choices that he has to learn from himself. But I would like someone there to give advice, and Morgause is the PERFECT person for that.

I'd also like to see Morgause go to Merlin for help. If she becomes aware of the strength of his magic he might prove to be a valuable ally or contact for her. Like when Morgana finally goes to the wall they could team but to try and get her to see sense... Good luck!

Exactly! Her largest leverage that she's revealed/used so far has been Uther!hate, and that works well because her character runs off calculated emotions. *bounces* I WANT MORGAUSE CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT!

Me too! The show writers have GOLD DUST here and they can't afford to give it up. Give Morgause some character development, show! And Morgana's family's back history while you're at it (Although I imagine that comes hand in hand with Morgause, doesn't it?) And Arthur for that matter.

(no subject)

majorshipper - 2010-04-09 23:44 (UTC) - Expand

I think that the audio commentaries and Secrets and Magic made it clear that that was Igraine. I believe it was because everything she said was true (We already knew it to be true). Furthermore we all know that everything Merlin said when Arthur was damn near close to killing Uther was a lie just to stop him. It's one occassion where I can understand Morgause's frustration - the ghost of Igraine told him the truth and as far as she could tell Arthur didn't even punch a hole through the wall. It's also the characteristics of the ghost that made it obvious it was legit - she didn't want to tell Arthur the truth and when she did she told him not to let it change him. Finally Morgause looked genuinely surprised by some of the information that Igraine shared during their little séance. So bearing all that in mind I'm gonna Igraine's ghost was legit, that dress it hers and for some reason Morgause got Morgana to dress up in it.

If it is a case of lack of costumes then I will throw things at them. Of all the costumes they could have pulled out of storage and they give her IGRAINE'S DRESS!! So at this point I'm going to go with the silent majority and say that this must hinder on the ever-brilliant Arthur-Uther-Igraine-Morgana-Morgause gate that ASH talked of running in to S3. As to why Morgause might send Morgana back to Camelot in Igraine's dress, I'm wondering if maybe the ladies do a spell to make her appear like Igraine to... I don't know? Scare the hell outta them? Maybe Morgause has told Morgana about what Uther did to Igraine and they are, once again, going to try and get Arthur on side. In S2 Morgause seemed to have only two real interests - to gain the trust of Arthur and the trust of Morgana individually by appealing to things that connects her to them and they are sensitive about. For Arthur it was his mother, for Morgana it was her magic. She failed with the former and won with the latter. Given Arthur's importance (One that Morgause is clearly aware of) I think Morgause will want more than ever to try and expose Uther to Arthur and win back some trust.

I'm looking forward to Merlin's reaction in general not just to seeing Morgana in the dress. I'm curious about Merlin's reaction because Morgana is almost certainly going to waste and episode or two trying to kill him or destroy him, and fail miserably. I imagine it will be through such attempts that Morgana starts to show her true colours, screwing over other people to get what she wants or something. I wonder whether Merlin will be frighetend by Morgana's reappearace or whether he will finally confront her, telling her that if she tries to take him down than he'll take her and Morgause with him. A bit dark for Merlin but Morgana did agree to screw over Camelot in 2x12 so. I imagine Morgana and Morgause will finally find out about Merlin's magic and maybe try and expose him to Arthur and Uther.

I'm looking forward to seeing Gwen's reaction too because she doesn't look to cheerful in the set shots. With Gwen I wonder if finally they're going to give her a storyline where she is suspicious of Morgana's inetntions, maybe realises she's not all innocent. She seemed a little "Hey, what's going on?" in 2x12. Expand please show! Plus it would be nice - if that does turn out to be Igraine's dress and it does freak Arthur out - it might give Gwen a chance to sit down and talk with Arthur about parent issues.

But the real question I wanna know is this - how and why does Morgause have Igraine's dress? Sorry for the essay!

Edited 2010-04-09 21:12 (UTC)

I love your theory. Like really, it seems to hit pretty much all the really interesting points. One thing I'm not so sure about it the Morgana trying to kill Merlin. If they have figured out that he has magic, then wouldn't it make sense for her to know better than to try to kill him? Of course, if she's mad enough (I can understand this part), she might not care. But for some reason I doubt Morgause would let her go off and try to kill him when she knows that would only destroy all chances of gaining trust, and that she'd likely never succeed.

But the real question I wanna know is this - how and why does Morgause have Igraine's dress?
THIS. This puzzles me more than anything. HOW did she get the dress of a ghost?

I think Morgana's attempts on Merlin's life would probably come BEFORE Morgazy.2 find out about his magic. It is possible that Merlin might reveal the truth while trying to protect himself. I think Morgana would be foolish enough to try and expose him/kill him even after than (If she was angry enough) but Morgause might then figure out who Merlin really is (Like Nimueh did) and tell her to just let it go. After all Merlin is supposedly a Druidic legend of some kind and he appears in the propercies, so Morgause will know that any attempt on Merlin's life is more likely to end in tears for them than him.

Morgause might want to try and convince Merlin to help her in whatever it is she is planning to do (for whatever reasons). She is very good at tapping into people's reasons for hating Uther. At the very least she might try and convince him just to let matters take their course, should Uther ever be in danger as it is Arthur he is supposed to protect, not Uther. Morgause has never tried to hurt Arthur and, it seems, just wants to get rid of Uther.

What I hope is that Merlin and Morgana won't just blindly be trying to kill each other if it does get to a point where Morgana wants revenge or something. I think Merlin was in a tight position and had no choice but to do what he did. If she tried to kill him or did something evil I think Merlin, after overcoming her, would let her go and warn her off like he did with the dragon. Merlin seems like someone who won't hurt or kill anyone unless he has to. Now the dragon is gone he can take control of his own life.

THIS. This puzzles me more than anything. HOW did she get the dress of a ghost?

Well, obviously it must be one of Igraine's dresses from when she was alive that the ghost just imagined herself in when she appeared. She probably thought it would be classier than a blood soaked nightdress, which was probably what she was wearing when she died. The question is why would Morgause have this dress that Igraine once owned? I have my theories about that but to tell them would risk making this comment EVEN longer. One thing I will say is that I think Morgause might well be connected to Igraine in some way. I don't think she was simply lying when she said she knew her "very well".

See, that would make sense. And I totally get what you mean. And your points do have validity...I suppose ;)

Well, obviously it must be one of Igraine's dresses from when she was alive that the ghost just imagined herself in when she appeared. She probably thought it would be classier than a blood soaked nightdress, which was probably what she was wearing when she died.
I suppose that's a good point...lol Okay the only point.

The question is why would Morgause have this dress that Igraine once owned? I have my theories about that but to tell them would risk making this comment EVEN longer. One thing I will say is that I think Morgause might well be connected to Igraine in some way. I don't think she was simply lying when she said she knew her "very well".
Oh I think Morgause knows Igraine very well. I really, REALLY think that the connection between Arthur and Morgause is WAY deeper than anyone can guess at this point. Even for my rather off mind.

Yeah, as much validity as fan-theories can. ;)

Oh I think Morgause knows Igraine very well. I really, REALLY think that the connection between Arthur and Morgause is WAY deeper than anyone can guess at this point. Even for my rather off mind.

This is EXACTLY how I feel about it. At least I hope the show had thought about the connection when they came up with the Arthur-Uther-Igraine-Morgana-Morgause thing. It's just the way Morgause is towards Arthur in that episode, the way she behaves and the way she looks... I don't know. There is DEFINATELY a connection there. At the very least I think they might be related.

Mhm. That storyline is just GOLDEN. ~~If I was any kind of epic fic writer I'd want to do something with the outline forming in my head...~~
If they try to deny a Arthur/Morgause relation I will throw something. It just fits, in my opinion, they have the baseline they need to make a truly epic story. And when I say epic, I mean the kinda thing that could help give the show 3+ more seasons.

To be honest the moment Morgause took off that helmet and stood right in front of Arthur I would "They have got to be related some how!" and not just because of the blond hair or the swordfighting, but just Morgause's attitude. Plus the way she helped him up when she had him pined under her sword was a nice thing to do. Something she didn't really have to do. She could have just left him there but she didn't.

I'll be angry if Morgause doesn't have some relation to Arthur somehow. I'm not certain how it would work out yet but I keep thinking there has to be one. After all they were the ones that wanted Morgause to have flowing blonde locks..

To be honest the moment Morgause took off that helmet and stood right in front of Arthur I would "They have got to be related some how!" and not just because of the blond hair or the swordfighting, but just Morgause's attitude. Plus the way she helped him up when she had him pined under her sword was a nice thing to do. Something she didn't really have to do. She could have just left him there but she didn't.
They have an undeniable, obvious relation. If you compare Arthur and Uther, you know that Arthur inherited a lot of things from his mother. And Morgause is so much like Arthur it's scary. Her attitude, her looks, her athleticism, just everything. They share so many character traits and such that it's impossible to believe that there is no blood relation.

And Morgause is so much like Arthur it's scary

It is scary. Like I said the moment I saw them in that shot I got goosebumps about how alike they looked. When you consider that they revealed almost immediately that Morgause was Morgana's half-sister but remained VERY obscure about Morgause's connection to the Pendragons it does send sparks flying. When I saw Morgause with Arthur (Despite knowing that she was Morgana's half-sister) I kept thinking she should be his sister, not Morgana's. Apart from them both having magic and very similar names they don't really have much else in common. As you rightly say it's all too much to be a red-herring.

Another thing that set alarm bells for me was the appearance of Igraine's ghost. You're right when you say that if you compare Arthur and Uther, the parent Arthur inherited the most from was Igraine. Even in S1 when we hadn't even seen Igraine I thought "I bet she was blonde", and she was. The presence of three blonds in one shot screamed family connection to me. Especially since Morgause and Igraine practically have the same type of hair too.

It's almost like they were diverting us from the Arthur/Morgause line by revealing the Morgana/Morgause relation. I keep getting Aunt/Older cousin vibes from those two, and it's just wow. On that note, Bradley and Emilia are SO GOOD at the subtext! I mean really, they have sparks. Just in the same scene, you can SEE sparks flying, and that just builds up so much more story without the writers raising a finger.
That scene, with Igraine, Arthur, and Morgause in the same room was just wow. It looks like a family get-together! I think Merlin saw it. Really, I think Merlin's picked up on the not-very subtle relationship.
Now I feel I need to re-watch that episode now, and see things from that perspective :D

Ha, that's interesting. Pretty much the same theory I've been crafting for my fic about them.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

I have a theory or two or three...

Re: I have a theory or two or three...

no subject