majorshipper | Morgana & Igraine, Season Three

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Morgana & Igraine, Season Three

*SEASON 3 SPOILERS FOR MERLIN*
I SAY AGAIN! DO NOT READ IF YOU DON'T WANT TO SEE SPOILER-ISH PIC AND SPECULATION! (With full S2 spoilers as well)
Okay now that that's outta the way, and you assumedly clicked on the cut, let's begin. This was kinda discussed on

camelot_love when the on-location pictures were first released, but never to any kind of detail (at least not while I was there). But this fascinates me to no end. Really. Check out the pictures. The first one is from season two (credit for picture goes to Merlin Wiki), the woman being Igraine, Arthur's deceased mother, who was 'conjured' by Morgause. It's unknown if she's actually his mother or not, but judging by what she said, it is possible. The second picture (credit for posting goes to

yavannauk), is of Katie McGrath from on-location in Pierrefonds, France. Notice anything similar? They're obviously wearing the SAME dress! If you recall, last season (S2), Morgana disappeared with Morgause after being poisoned by Merlin. Obviously she survived, and has returned to Camelot. Now, the biggest question is...why is she wearing Ygraine's dress? Is it a huge plot point or just a lack of costumes? Has Morgause sent her back in Ygraine's dress for a reason? How long will it take Merlin and Arthur to notice? (Surely they're not that stupid to not notice, right?) Anyway. Anyone want to start speculating on the matter?

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I think Morgana's attempts on Merlin's life would probably come BEFORE Morgazy.2 find out about his magic. It is possible that Merlin might reveal the truth while trying to protect himself. I think Morgana would be foolish enough to try and expose him/kill him even after than (If she was angry enough) but Morgause might then figure out who Merlin really is (Like Nimueh did) and tell her to just let it go. After all Merlin is supposedly a Druidic legend of some kind and he appears in the propercies, so Morgause will know that any attempt on Merlin's life is more likely to end in tears for them than him.

Morgause might want to try and convince Merlin to help her in whatever it is she is planning to do (for whatever reasons). She is very good at tapping into people's reasons for hating Uther. At the very least she might try and convince him just to let matters take their course, should Uther ever be in danger as it is Arthur he is supposed to protect, not Uther. Morgause has never tried to hurt Arthur and, it seems, just wants to get rid of Uther.

What I hope is that Merlin and Morgana won't just blindly be trying to kill each other if it does get to a point where Morgana wants revenge or something. I think Merlin was in a tight position and had no choice but to do what he did. If she tried to kill him or did something evil I think Merlin, after overcoming her, would let her go and warn her off like he did with the dragon. Merlin seems like someone who won't hurt or kill anyone unless he has to. Now the dragon is gone he can take control of his own life.

THIS. This puzzles me more than anything. HOW did she get the dress of a ghost?

Well, obviously it must be one of Igraine's dresses from when she was alive that the ghost just imagined herself in when she appeared. She probably thought it would be classier than a blood soaked nightdress, which was probably what she was wearing when she died. The question is why would Morgause have this dress that Igraine once owned? I have my theories about that but to tell them would risk making this comment EVEN longer. One thing I will say is that I think Morgause might well be connected to Igraine in some way. I don't think she was simply lying when she said she knew her "very well".

See, that would make sense. And I totally get what you mean. And your points do have validity...I suppose ;)

Well, obviously it must be one of Igraine's dresses from when she was alive that the ghost just imagined herself in when she appeared. She probably thought it would be classier than a blood soaked nightdress, which was probably what she was wearing when she died.
I suppose that's a good point...lol Okay the only point.

The question is why would Morgause have this dress that Igraine once owned? I have my theories about that but to tell them would risk making this comment EVEN longer. One thing I will say is that I think Morgause might well be connected to Igraine in some way. I don't think she was simply lying when she said she knew her "very well".
Oh I think Morgause knows Igraine very well. I really, REALLY think that the connection between Arthur and Morgause is WAY deeper than anyone can guess at this point. Even for my rather off mind.

Yeah, as much validity as fan-theories can. ;)

Oh I think Morgause knows Igraine very well. I really, REALLY think that the connection between Arthur and Morgause is WAY deeper than anyone can guess at this point. Even for my rather off mind.

This is EXACTLY how I feel about it. At least I hope the show had thought about the connection when they came up with the Arthur-Uther-Igraine-Morgana-Morgause thing. It's just the way Morgause is towards Arthur in that episode, the way she behaves and the way she looks... I don't know. There is DEFINATELY a connection there. At the very least I think they might be related.

Mhm. That storyline is just GOLDEN. ~~If I was any kind of epic fic writer I'd want to do something with the outline forming in my head...~~
If they try to deny a Arthur/Morgause relation I will throw something. It just fits, in my opinion, they have the baseline they need to make a truly epic story. And when I say epic, I mean the kinda thing that could help give the show 3+ more seasons.

To be honest the moment Morgause took off that helmet and stood right in front of Arthur I would "They have got to be related some how!" and not just because of the blond hair or the swordfighting, but just Morgause's attitude. Plus the way she helped him up when she had him pined under her sword was a nice thing to do. Something she didn't really have to do. She could have just left him there but she didn't.

I'll be angry if Morgause doesn't have some relation to Arthur somehow. I'm not certain how it would work out yet but I keep thinking there has to be one. After all they were the ones that wanted Morgause to have flowing blonde locks..

To be honest the moment Morgause took off that helmet and stood right in front of Arthur I would "They have got to be related some how!" and not just because of the blond hair or the swordfighting, but just Morgause's attitude. Plus the way she helped him up when she had him pined under her sword was a nice thing to do. Something she didn't really have to do. She could have just left him there but she didn't.
They have an undeniable, obvious relation. If you compare Arthur and Uther, you know that Arthur inherited a lot of things from his mother. And Morgause is so much like Arthur it's scary. Her attitude, her looks, her athleticism, just everything. They share so many character traits and such that it's impossible to believe that there is no blood relation.

And Morgause is so much like Arthur it's scary

It is scary. Like I said the moment I saw them in that shot I got goosebumps about how alike they looked. When you consider that they revealed almost immediately that Morgause was Morgana's half-sister but remained VERY obscure about Morgause's connection to the Pendragons it does send sparks flying. When I saw Morgause with Arthur (Despite knowing that she was Morgana's half-sister) I kept thinking she should be his sister, not Morgana's. Apart from them both having magic and very similar names they don't really have much else in common. As you rightly say it's all too much to be a red-herring.

Another thing that set alarm bells for me was the appearance of Igraine's ghost. You're right when you say that if you compare Arthur and Uther, the parent Arthur inherited the most from was Igraine. Even in S1 when we hadn't even seen Igraine I thought "I bet she was blonde", and she was. The presence of three blonds in one shot screamed family connection to me. Especially since Morgause and Igraine practically have the same type of hair too.

It's almost like they were diverting us from the Arthur/Morgause line by revealing the Morgana/Morgause relation. I keep getting Aunt/Older cousin vibes from those two, and it's just wow. On that note, Bradley and Emilia are SO GOOD at the subtext! I mean really, they have sparks. Just in the same scene, you can SEE sparks flying, and that just builds up so much more story without the writers raising a finger.
That scene, with Igraine, Arthur, and Morgause in the same room was just wow. It looks like a family get-together! I think Merlin saw it. Really, I think Merlin's picked up on the not-very subtle relationship.
Now I feel I need to re-watch that episode now, and see things from that perspective :D

I keep getting Aunt/Older cousin vibes from those two, and it's just wow.

Really? I'd never thought about that before. In some ways I hope it isn't something as mundane as a cousin, although an aunt might be interesting... although I think Morgause might be a bit too young to be Arthur's aunt. I agree that there are sparks flying. That scene was like a family get together, definately. I also agree that Merlin might have picked up on it.

I rewatched the episode earlier. I loved the scene - it's one of the reasons why I had to mention the hair again. ;)

I mean, this. Really. Look at this and tell me there's no relation.

I can't get over how alike those three look. Same hair, same expressions, same noses, same everything... I just love how much detail they put into this. Like I said I remember an interview with Emilia said that she was told to wear blonde hair extentions. I can't help thinking about how similar the curls in Igraine and Morgause's hair is. Like you said - it's like a family reunion. Either that or a meeting of The Blond-Haired Society.

I know! It's just insane! I wonder if when they were casting if they actually stuck them all in a room and said "Okay, who looks the most like a family?"
I bet they did. LOL a meeting of the blond haired society. I was just looking at that second picture, and just WOW. The expressions are like mirrors. And the way that look Morgause has is one that we see on Arthur!

Edited 2010-04-10 15:18 (UTC)

I think they were very lucky when the got Emilia Fox because she does look a lot like Arthur. She had been dying her hair brown recently but she is a natural blonde so giving her the blonde wig and hair extensions was the way to go. They might have cast Alice because, again, she looks like both of them. There were definately some really good casting choices going on there.

(no subject)

majorshipper - 2010-04-10 16:13 (UTC) - Expand

http://becca-blog-bec.blogspot.com/2009/11/survived-that-onwards.html

Wherein I create a family tree.

http://becca-blog-bec.blogspot.com/2010/04/merlin-stuff-now.html

Wherein I argue with myself about theories and things.

Ha, that's interesting. Pretty much the same theory I've been crafting for my fic about them.

Thanks. I'm new around here (as in I've been hanging around for ages but I've been dying to theorize about this with someone besides ME), so I joined up.

I've been posting some of my old blog entries from the last 6 months up here under my account in my journal thing. Here. http://koshakrl.livejournal.com/640.html

Use whatever you want-I've been dying to share these thoughts with somebody.

Nice! I haven't gone very in-depth with it all, or researched anything, just mostly thought up on my own. Though I bet if I actually looked I'd find even more ideas and speculation to add to the stack. Also, if you're interested in talking with others about pre-series stuff, check out

beforethelegend.

Wouldn't it make more sense if Arthur and Morgause had the same mother (Igraine) based on all the look-alike references? That'd be (chronologically):

Igraine + Gorlois = Morgause
unknown + Gorlois = Morgana
Igraine + Uther = Arthur

To be perfectly honest, the half-sister connection between Morgana & Morgause bothers me a bit because it messed up my original theory about Morgana's parents, but oh well. THANK YOU, WRITERS! :p

As I haven't given this possibility much thought yet, feel free to point out to me whatever I may have overlooked of course. :)

No, because Igraine was supposed to be barren. I think she's either an aunt to Morgause and Morgana or she's a cousin.

I know that Igraine's supposed to be barren, but isn't there the possibility that she wasn't when she was younger (= when she gave birth to Morgause)?

English isn't my native language, therefore I can't say whether the word "barren" implies that a person is generally unable to conceive or whether it could as well be due to an accident or menopause.

Edited 2010-05-27 14:16 (UTC)

I have to admit that would have made a lot of sense to me in terms of the legends and so on. It also would have been a lot cleaner to figure out because then you just have one person to invent - Morgana's mother. Despite being told Igraine was barren I admittedly haven't ruled that idea out, mainly because I'm a legend boffin and I like to keep on top of things. lol! There is more to the story than meets the eye and I'm not ruling out any possibility until the truth has been revealed on screen.

To be honest I think the cousin idea is a bit... meh. But that's just me. If Morgana and Morgause were FULL sisters I might be more willing to go with it but because they're only half it seems a bit too confusing. I mean that does seem to be the case but for it to be revealed that they're all cousins? Meh. I'm also a little concerned because you have to invent so many parents for everyone. You have to invent a mother and/or father for Morgause and a mother for Morgana. Also, which parent do they share? I used to think that maybe they shared a mother because of the bracelet, but then when I rewatched the episode I realised that Gaius seemed to make out that Morgause had a right to wear that bracelet. ("There is only one person other than Morgana who would have cause to wear such a bracelet") which strongly suggests that Gorlois might have fathered Morgause.

Either none of this goes anywhere to explain why Uther seemed so freaked out that Morgause survived. It couldn't have had anything to do with magic because she was born long before Uther turned against magic. It MUST have meant something whether Morgause lived or died, which suggests that Uther (and maybe Igraine) might be tied into Morgause's birth.

That said I think a family link between Arthur and Morgause MUST exist whether they are cousins, siblings, or some other blood relation... the fact they wanted Morgause to have that hair colour rather than the same as Morgana suggests they are doing something with the family tree,

It does seem like it would have been a lot easier to just make Morgana + Morgause full sisters, eh? But I suppose half-sisters are more dramatic in the sense of storytelling.

I had a theory that Igraine and Morgause were half sisters also; sharing the same mum, while Morgana and Morgause shared the same father. But, as you said, it does leave a lot of characters to create. Still, that's more or less the basic idea I had for my canon (or what I plan on writing for my fic).

Re: I have a theory or two or three...

sophielou21.livejournal.com - 2010-05-27 15:27 (UTC) - Expand

Re: I have a theory or two or three...

majorshipper - 2010-05-27 15:45 (UTC) - Expand

Re: I have a theory or two or three...

sophielou21.livejournal.com - 2010-05-27 16:17 (UTC) - Expand

Re: I have a theory or two or three...

majorshipper - 2010-05-27 16:27 (UTC) - Expand

Re: I have a theory or two or three...

sophielou21.livejournal.com - 2010-05-27 16:34 (UTC) - Expand

Re: I have a theory or two or three...

majorshipper - 2010-05-27 17:18 (UTC) - Expand

Re: I have a theory or two or three...

sophielou21.livejournal.com - 2010-05-27 17:53 (UTC) - Expand

Well, I think that theory has a few issues; A: Igraine wasn't supposed to be able to have kids, and B: Morgause is pretty old compared to Arthur and Morgana. It doesn't really make a ton of sense in those regards, but otherwise it's actually interesting.

That's why I said Igraine wasn't probably mother to Morgana or Morgause. She was awfully young when she had Arthur, so it'd be a bit of a stretch to assume she had another child either right close to Arthur's age (Morgana) or one that was considerably older than Arthur (Morgause.)